Wednesday, April 6, 2011

My friend got bride napped

One of my favorite things about couples is hearing the story of how they first met. My own parents’ story is actually my favorite (my mom happened to walk in on my dad doing the most meticulous job cleaning a fish) but, in general, I just love hearing how love stumbled upon people.

In Georgia, I’m now careful not to ask this question. The one and I only time I ever asked it I was told a long and harrowing story about being bride napped. 

I have a friend hear in town (we’ll call her Ketino) that I enjoy the company of. We don’t hang out often (she’s always quite busy) but when we do we always end up having a nice long chat over coffee or tea and get to know each other better.

On one particular occasion Ketino was telling me some silly story that involved her husband and that’s when I asked the question, “How did you two meet anyway?”

“Oh, he kidnapped me and I was forced to marry him”.

The casual manner in which Ketino just blurted it out must have alarmed me because I let out a big old, “Are you s***ing me?” (I normally try not to swear in front of Georgians; it makes Americans look a bit classier).

Ketino went into an elaborate explanation of how the whole thing actually happened. Basically, a man approached her one day at a bus station and told her how beautiful she was, begging her to go on a date with him. Ketino refused, and thought nothing of it. The man asked her out again a few days later and one more time Ketino refused. Next, the man figured out where she lived and went to her home to once again plead that she go out with him. After three refusals in one week, Ketino assumed the man had gotten the hint.

Later that week Ketino went out to the market to buy some new shoes for work. As she was walking to a small shop she noticed a car that she thought was her neighbors pull over next to her. Assuming it really was her neighbor, Ketino stopped for a second expecting her neighbor to deliver a message or something.  Then ever so quickly, a man stepped out of the passenger door and forced her to get in to the backseat. Ketino noticed that the driver of the car was the same man who she had rejected earlier in the week.

The two men drove her to a small house about thirty minutes outside of Samtredia where three beds were already prepared. Neither man actually touched her; she was not raped or physically assaulted in any way. The man from the bus station fed her fine meals daily, he talked to her, he let her sleep when she wanted to sleep and he told her that they would stay at this house for seven days and at the end of the week they would get married.

Now, you can imagine that I am getting more and more livid as this story progresses. I was trying to suppress it as much as I could, but surely what this man did should be illegal on so many accounts. It’s incredibly strange to hear someone talk about how their rights as a human were taken away from them in such a nonchalant way.

On around day five of her capture, Ketino’s parents were able to find out where she was being kept and came to rescue her. The thing is, Ketino told them to just go home- she would have to marry this man if she were to have any life in Samtredia.

This is where things really got messed up for me. Ketino was now practically forced to marry this man because if she decided not to marry him she would be ostracized as an ‘impure’ or ‘unmarriageable’ woman in town since she spent five days with a strange man. It didn’t matter that nothing actually happened or that the whole thing occurred against Ketino’s will. In her eyes, and what she assumed were the eyes of Samtredia, if she did not marry this man no one would ever marry her. It’s for this same reason Ketino could not tell the police, this would make it town-wide knowledge that she was alone with a man for a week.

So, on day seven the two got married. The wedding photos are difficult for me to look at. Ketino was so stressed during the entire bride napping that she ended up losing about 3 kilos (7 pounds) in a week. She’s insanely thin and weak looking in each photo. The photo of their first kiss looks like a snapshot taken of two high school kids rehearsing a kiss in a play. There’s no romance; it just looks forced.

Ketino’s husband is the same man that offers to drive me home from school when it rains, the same man who offers me cake when I walk by his office- he’s the same man who bride napped one of my good friends.  It’s hard for me to look at him in any other way but a negative one whenever I see him.

I hate him for what he did. He saw something he liked and he took it. He did not for one instant think about anyone but himself. It’s disgusting if you ask me. Granted, I know, this is not my culture and I should be accepting and tolerant of alternate ways to court people, but this just seems out of line- a complete violation of human rights.

I asked Ketino if she loves her husband and she hesitated for a second before she said, “Mmm, sometimes. He gave me my children”.

The whole thing is just so sad. It reminds me of an article I read this summer about an eight-year-old Liberian girl who got gang raped and then disowned by her parents for 'shaming their family'. Both stories just resonate events where people are ostracized (or fear being ostracized) for an event they had no control over. 

Fortunately, times have changed in Samtredia and events like this are few and far between. Regardless, gender roles are incredibly defined and men continue to have a dominantly 'nobler' status then women. I don't like the inequality but it has given me a greater appreciation for the equality between men and women in the United States. I love Georgia but a bit more equalism couldn't hurt.

30 comments:

  1. Michelle,

    First of all, agree with every sentence in your conclusion.

    Secondly, do you think that one of the factor (the significant factor, from my point of view) in the problem of gender inequality in Georgia is that women also are not so interested to change the status quo?

    They know what rules of the game is and prefer to have devil known (the current situation) then the angel unknown (change).

    Most importantly, do you think (this is my observation) that women do not support each other (at least in public) in cases like this and similar?

    Have you red Neal Zupančič (one of your colleage in Tbilisi) blog about this issues?

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  4. I agree with the comment above, the women are kinda comfortable with this status of equality. I my self try to incorrige them to fight for their rights, the new generation actualy thinks much differently, this bride kidnappig tradition is passing away..
    the human right record in US and Europe is not so old, let me remind you that in your own country women got the right to vote only in 1920, not to mention slavery of the 19-th century, your founding fathers had one or two of them, your capital is colled by such a man..
    racial segregation was common in some southern states in US, just in 60-th..(i love America but:)..)
    I'm just traying to say that the freedom you are anjoing it is the fruit of of last dacades only..

    and i find the parallel with the sudanis woman bit inadequate..

    so, i agree with you about the problem of inequality that really exists in Georgia, but you should understand the backgound and put it in the perspective..

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  5. you seem to me very good person, I hope you get me right, but I just have to say that the westerners atetude to other culturs who left bit behind for some objective reasons(20-30 years in case of Georgia?) seems bit arrogant to me

    you are acting like those human rigth records were you taditions like from jesus christ birth..:))

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  6. Rezo (and to other Georgian men)

    All of you are falling into the same trap again and again, please understand one thing:

    If someone does not behave good it does not justify one (and a whole society) to behave badly.

    A girl, young, educated, civilized girl come from well developed country with the intention to help developing county. She really tries to does it but at the same time she does notice things which are not acceptable if one wants to be part of civilized society in 21 century. And bride-napping and the way Georgian men behave towards Georgian and Western women is completely unacceptable if one want to be a part of western, civilized society.

    And when she points it, in very polite forms, you and people like you came and say 'hey, you have/had problems in your county'.

    You know what - GROW F-ing UP! You and most of Georgian men need to wake up one day and stop behaving like 10 years old kids. Because most of you do and make arguments like 10 year olds are doing.

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  7. Dear michelle,
    This post disturbes me. I know it's a different culture and this happened a while ago but it terrifies me, being kidnapped and forced to marry someone you don't know and don't trust and don't love that's not fair to a women. And it's disturbing. You know how I am, but it makes me really sad. I can't imagine having love taken away from me.
    I hope this story doesn't keep you too upset and doesn't ruin your time in Georgia because I know you're loving it there.
    I miss you darling don't let anything keep you down

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  8. Invisible, YOU GO GIRL!!! (or guy if that's the case)

    Michelle, I love that you are able to speak your mind but still maintain some understanding of a culture that is different from your own.

    As for you Rezo, your comments began polite and only proceeded to get ruder and ruder. "you are acting like those human rigth records were you taditions like from jesus christ birth..:)) " ...michelle did not say this at all. we here in america appreciate the STRENGTH and COURAGE of those who came before us. those who were able to ACCEPT CHANGE instead of running away in fear. so what you can "arrogance" is in fact EDUCATION. just because we were born with boobs and a vagina and you with a penis means we're inferior?! there's a reason why men crumble to the ground in pain when kicked where the sun don't shine :]

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  9. bride napped is criminal act in Georgia and is has passed away,no such act was registrered for years,it's not relevant for now!

    it happened in past, yes, like martin lutter king was assessinated in America, it's like i will tell my Georgian freind - you see, what rassist state is America, because there was some racial killings in the past!
    that's what i am traying to say..

    it does not mean that there is no iquality problems, but this blog record showing like bride-nappin is still common act of gettng man and woamen together..

    stop moralaizing me, you do not know me personaly and my atetude towards women, you have no right to get personal..

    i tried to be very nice and last sentance was somehow humoric than rude, you just trying to put it like i was rude, cos propbelby you have no other adequate argument

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  10. Dear Rezo,
    Michelle did say that this doesn't happen anymore. So we know it doesn't happen anymore. It's just shocking that it was somewhat common before. This does not mean the only thing we think of when we here Georgia is bride napping. In fact michelle has written some really wonderful things about Georgia and your culture and how interesting it is.
    So i think you've just got it a little confused. Michelle and Amanda and myself are just strong women who don't want ANYTHING like this happening ever in the world, it's just sad to find out it has.
    It's not a personal attack on you or any Georgian for that matter.

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  11. ok, i did not take this pesronal either, i have no atention to be rude, i just wanted to say that noone is perfect,not even westerners are, maybe i could put it another way...

    of course bride-neping is digsuting, i feel shame for this psheudo tradition myself and i acknowledge that there are other aspect of our mentality that does not sute to the 21-th century..
    you should understand that society norms can not be transfered momentaly, it is process and i feel that the process has started in Georgia..

    p.s. i really gratefull for all good intentions of yours, you are doing grate job, thank you:)..

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  12. I know you weren't trying to be rude, and i would definitely agree that no one's culture is perfect by any means.
    And i definitely understand that righting something that's wrong can take lots of time and change and that's hard for any culture to overcome and move forward, but it's great that it's happening.
    and you're welcome! I'm glad to clear things up :)

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  13. i apologize for getting so heated, I should have been less rude myself. I appreciate the fact that you're taking the time to clarify yourself and again, I apologize for the misunderstanding

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  14. ah Michelle, stop behaving like you have never been kidnapped before. :D

    (Kidding)

    1) Look, this thing in general was very rare and happened only in the rural areas. It STILL happens time to time BUT in a COMPLETELY different manner:

    - The whole "kidnapping a bride" thing is an old tradition ... it was mainly happening somewhere in the mountains MANY MANY years ago. (And was not always forceful, the the boy/girl liked each other but the parents were against their unity they could runaway... this was called "kidnapping of the bride")

    - TODAY such things happen ONLY if there is an agreement between girl/boy and their parents. If this is a retarded traditional family they may stage "the kidnapping of the bride" - Naturally EVERYBODY knows that this is just a show... and it in generally happens in MUCH nicer forms. They usually go somewhere nice and get to know each other better (Without any umm.. sex or anything like that.) and after they become a husband and a wife.

    - If anybody tries to forcefully kidnap a bride today he will be arrested by the Georgian police at once and sent to prison for MANY many years and knowing our police I'm sure he will be arrested, because in general they do their job well and it is not a very big country.

    - In ABSOLUTE majority of cases (I say 99%) the parents will not judge the kidnapped girl for "shaming their name" or whatever... This were the ways of the past...

    In general US has gone a long way ... in the last 30-50 years and Georgia has too.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEMXaTktUfA


    - About "gender equality" problem...

    Yes, this problem does exist, no it is not more serious than in most of other European countries. Maybe in big liberal cities like NY,San Francisco this problem is smaller, but I'm sure that if you go south... in states you will find similar problems. I don't know any family in Georgia which i would say has a "gender equality" problem. But, I know there are. Still this problem is nowhere near alarming.

    "Invisible said...
    Rezo (and to other Georgian men)
    All of you are falling into the same trap again and again, please understand one thing..."


    - Please don't generalize, I'm a Georgian man and I agree with all your points, also I think that majority of Georgian men are idiots, but I can't say this about each and every one of us. I accept your criticism and agree with it, but you should understand that this is not the way everybody in Georgia lives. Shit happens... in Georgia in US, Europe and elsewhere. We are as flawed as everybody else, we have certain good in us and certain bad, but still we are not bad people.

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  15. Dear Michelle,

    Too bad you'll be long gone from Georgia when i come back...

    I'd kidnap you honey. (If you let me)


    P.S.

    I was joking of course, I want to thank you for all your efforts in Georgia. Even if you think that you have changed little. Trust me, these people in Samtredia will never forget you. I'm sure that you have expanded their vision and even if the majority of pupils still suck at English (because they are dumb and lazy) I still think that this experience of interaction with a nice person from another country will have a very positive effect on them as on human beings and after-all thats what it's all about.

    Thank you.

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  16. Hey Michelle! Any updates on your time there? I'm vicariously living through your experience and can't wait for your next post!

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  17. Have not being here for a while. Based on number of comments seems that Michelle generated her first controversy in her blog. And she disappeared after this...

    > We have certain good in us and certain bad,
    > but still we are not bad people.

    Thanks you very much for for at least being willing to admit that 'certain bad' does exist.

    But I'm sure that exactly same quote was said to shocked British by islander locals when British heard that James Cook was eaten.

    I think you would understand what I want to say: the problem of gender inequality is not a problem itself. Problem is that significant portion of the population and vast majority of Georgian males are in denial that the problem exist.

    Could you explain to me, how it happened that in 25 years Georgian society degraded so much that it is now OK beating women by their husbands even when they are pregnant?

    I quite well remember times of Soviet Union and can tell that despite the awfulness of Communism these times physical violence in Georgian society towards women was taboo and completely unacceptable.

    Moreover, one of the justification of an average Georgian in Soviet times to have moral superiority when comparing themselves to Russians was how women were treated in Russian society.

    Well, 25 years have passed, Russians are gone, but modern Georgian society is nothing betting in terms of physical violence towards women than their Northern neighbor. Statistics are in comments section in the following post:

    http://peripateticpedagogue.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/international-womens-day/

    Now another thing - how Georgian males treating foreign, especially Western women. I do know that the root of the problem is that majority of Georgian males are like Victorian Era these Pacific Islander Aborigines who lever seen anything outside of their island and behave accordingly (ყველაფრის უნახავები - in Georgian). But I hope someone from Tourism department will read this and do something real, because otherwise if things are left unchanged Georgia soon needs to be declared a country where it is not safe for a foreign women to travel and live.

    How it happened that Georgia, where guest is god send (according to locals) has highest amount of physical violence registered towards foreign women compare to neighboring countries?

    How it happened that Georgian men think that Asian-Americans are prostitutes? I can tell a story about one Georgian guy while being in States for his Masters degree married to American born Chinese girl. When they came to visit Georgia his school/college buddies were telling him - we know that you could not marry an Asian - she is a prostitute, let us fuck her. The guy bought return tickets on fourth day of arrival and never being in Georgia since than.

    And why I'm asking this rhetorical questions when just a month ago one Georgian priest told his congregation that god punished Japan with earthquake because their women are not virgins and are engaged prostitution so they have money to get married.

    Tragedy is not that people like this exists, tragedy is that people believe them and take their words without any thinking.

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  18. “Have not being here for a while. Based on number of comments seems that Michelle generated her first controversy in her blog. And she disappeared after this...”
    - I don’t see this as any sort of “controversy” this is an interesting subject and I have no problem discussing that. It’s just; I think it really should not be so exaggerated in scale. This and things that are MUCH MUCH worse happen in EVERY country of the world and again this is NOT a common case at all.


    > We have certain good in us and certain bad,
    > but still we are not bad people.

    Thanks you very much for for at least being willing to admit that 'certain bad' does exist.

    But I'm sure that exactly same quote was said to shocked British by islander locals when British heard that James Cook was eaten.”

    - Your cynical lyrics in your comment are out of place. People are not perfect, so what do you want?


    “I think you would understand what I want to say: the problem of gender inequality is not a problem itself. Problem is that significant portion of the population and vast majority of Georgian males are in denial that the problem exist.”
    - If you could understand Georgian language, you would understand that you are very wrong; this subject is a theme for various discussions in media and especially on the television and blogs. This issue does exist and depending who you are discussion it with you will get an appropriate responses.

    “Could you explain to me, how it happened that in 25 years Georgian society degraded so much that it is now OK beating women by their husbands even when they are pregnant? “

    - Again, your comment is insulting. It is not and never was OK to beat a woman in Georgia, pregnant or not. Home violence does occur, but your comment is exaggerated and certainly blaming the whole Georgian society is just wrong in every way. Such things happen everywhere and I can’t say that they happen more in Georgia than anywhere else.

    Depending on a society class you may be more exposed to domestic violence or not.

    If you live in rural area with poor people you may be more exposed to see a domestic valance than if you live in a big city, just as it is more common to see hillbillies in other countries and the domestic violence there. Are you SHOCKED?!

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  19. “I quite well remember times of Soviet Union and can tell that despite the awfulness of Communism these times physical violence in Georgian society towards women was taboo and completely unacceptable. “

    - Different times, different problems. In last 20 years Georgia has regained independence, for us and for the whole Eastern Europe. But Georgia has paid the most for this independence. Starting from April 9 in 1989. Three Russian-Georgian wars (1993, 1994, 2008) and a KGB provoked Civil war… 20% of country’s territory under Russian occupation; more than 20.000 people killed in Russian-Georgian wars; and up to 500.000 refugees…(around 8% of the total population)
    -
    - So yeah… THIS does change a LOT. I still think that despite all that you are grossly exaggerating a problem, yes it is a problem and it does happen, but everything has a reason behind it and considering the situation it is not that bad.

    “Moreover, one of the justification of an average Georgian in Soviet times to have moral superiority when comparing themselves to Russians was how women were treated in Russian society.”

    - This still true today, BUT it (again) depends on which part of the society you are talking about. Generally woman in Georgian society can play much higher and more important roles than in Russia, even today. (I mean politics/leadership/business…)

    “Well, 25 years have passed, Russians are gone, but modern Georgian society is nothing betting in terms of physical violence towards women than their Northern neighbor. Statistics are in comments section in the following post:
    http://peripateticpedagogue.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/international-womens-day/”

    - Look, I live in this country and I know what I’m talking about. The problem does exist, but it is not as big as you want to see it and certainly I can’t see any reasons for so much hysteria over this. Let us put it this way. It is not worse than in MAJORITY of European countries, despite the fact that there are much more serious problems in this society.

    Right now I’m in Japan, well. Here too, women have their place, their role in a society, in a family. This is culture, accept it or move. I fail to understand why you can’t accept this. Georgian woman are great wives and usually fanatical mothers. But often there are very successful in business.

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  20. “ “Now another thing - how Georgian males treating foreign, especially Western women. I do know that the root of the problem is that majority of Georgian males are like Victorian Era these Pacific Islander Aborigines who lever seen anything outside of their island and behave accordingly (ყველაფრის უნახავები - in Georgian). But I hope someone from Tourism department will read this and do something real, because otherwise if things are left unchanged Georgia soon needs to be declared a country where it is not safe for a foreign women to travel and live. “

    - Well, probably you are very beautiful and these comments are a reason of that. DEPENDING on where you are in Georgia you will get according reactions and comments JUST like in say US. There are places in US where I would certainly not recommend for any beautiful young lady to hang out… In Georgia this is more playful than really dangerous, yet this unwanted male attention can be often really annoying. (Read “White Masai” if you are into this sort of stuff. :D)

    “How it happened that Georgia, where guest is god send (according to locals) has highest amount of physical violence registered towards foreign women compare to neighboring countries?”

    - Very simple, it depends on who’s counting and how. I’m not saying that those statistics about Georgia is a lie or something. But you have to take into account the level of corruption in the neibouring countries police structures; most of times they refuse even to register the crime, because in the end of the year the statistics should be “positive”. This was true for Georgia too, until the police reform took place in 2004. If you see a statistics of crime/abuse rape/ you will see a HUGE decline since 2005 in every field. The rape cases were as I remember around 80 or so for 2009. Divide 4,5 million on 80 and you will see that this is not a very large number.


    - “How it happened that Georgian men think that Asian-Americans are prostitutes?”
    -
    - - Your comment is insulting. SOME Georgian men can think whatever they want, however it does not mean that this is the way everybody does. That is why people are different.
    -
    - “ I can tell a story about one Georgian guy while being in States for his Masters degree married to American born Chinese girl. When they came to visit Georgia his school/college buddies were telling him - we know that you could not marry an Asian - she is a prostitute, let us fuck her. The guy bought return tickets on fourth day of arrival and never being in Georgia since than.”
    -
    - -
    - Two things really:

    - 1) Do not generalize. To me this story means only one thing. This boy was an idiot, because he could not choose his friends correctly. (“tell me who is your friend and I will tell you who you are.”)

    - 2) If I marry a Chinese girl from US or China or anywhere else, I can 100% guarantee that NOBODY would EVER say anything like that or even think anything like that. But again, you are a hillbilly/retarded/junkie… you could get that and you don’t have to be Georgian for that.

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  21. -
    “And why I'm asking this rhetorical questions when just a month ago one Georgian priest told his congregation that god punished Japan with earthquake because their women are not virgins and are engaged prostitution so they have money to get married. “
    -
    - - Now direct lies. You are insane.
    -
    - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX5uPPKTdq8
    http://www.civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=23236&search=japan
    - The only words that was more or less in context of what you wrote about Japan where stated by two people in the world:
    Russia’s Patriarch Kirill (later he repeated this for Chernobyl…) and Russian movie director Mikalkhov.
    http://observers.france24.com/content/20110323-russian-director-says-tsunami-sent-punish-godless-japanese-Mikhalkov
    -
    -

    “Tragedy is not that people like this exists, tragedy is that people believe them and take their words without any thinking.”

    - Look, I was and am in Japan right now and I was following closely the comments and actions by our government. Whole your comment is hysterical and insultive and in the end you switch to direct lies.

    - While I admit that Georgia has many problems in many different aspects, I can tell you directly that your motives are far from “moral”. Please mind your own business and leave us alone The problems are discussed honestly with friends, with such attitude and cynical comments you are not getting any friends in here any time soon.

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  22. //

    It is funny, but just few minutes ago i saw this article. About Ukraine-Georgian relationships.

    Thats the part about how Ukrainian women are treated in Georgia.

    Ehem, Madam "Invisible" from above, the article is in Russian, so I'm sure you can read it...

    «Я часами могу рассказывать об уважении к женщинам. Конечно, вы можете поспорить, приведя примеры поведения грузинских мужчин тут. Но я давно для себя уяснила, что в таком отношении к украинским девушкам виноваты только мы сами, – говорит она. – А ещё в Грузии почти нет домов престарелых, приютов для сирот. Крайне мало случаев изнасилований, жестокого обращения с женщинами и детьми. Грузинские дети купаются в любви своих родителей, их сердца чисты и открыты».
    http://focus.ua/society/181067

    I think this about covers all the aspects of your "concern".

    Also I must openly state here that Ukrainians are widely seen as the "hottest nation" around. I have many friends who have married Ukrainian ladies and happily live in Tbilisi/Batumi or Kiev. How is that for your gender problem??

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  23. Hello every body!
    This article is very interesting for me because I was in Tbilisi alone. But people in that country were very kind. You know I'm not American I'm Iranian-Italian (half-cast) so I can understand the cultural differences.
    You know before travel I afraided of Georgian men a lot but when I visited Tbilisi I understood how they are kind and polite and are not at all racist!
    Georgian men are generouse and polite my friend is a beautiful Iranian lady and her husband is Georgian & this year they are going to celebrate their 10th anniversary and as she said, her husband never beat or hurt her!
    But we should not forget that violence against women does exist! Thank God that there are Georgian men who do not deny this fact!
    Finally I think Georgian are sensitive people and because we are not Georgian and talking about this problem, they fill that American or foreigners are going to insult whole their culture and country!!!
    SO just I want to say that we all should help each other understand each other culture and try to make our world better place for children,women and men!
    Sarah

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  24. Dear Sarah,

    "Georgian men are generouse and polite my friend is a beautiful Iranian lady and her husband is Georgian & this year they are going to celebrate their 10th anniversary and as she said, her husband never beat or hurt her!"

    - ...Uh, why would he do that? Just because he's Georgian? Violence against a woman is COMPLETELY against the Georgian culture. Even your comment is kind of insulting to me. I read it like "Wow, look at them, they have been 10 years together and that Georgian husband of hers even did not beat her up..."

    I don't assume that you are surprised because this is a common occurrence in your own country right?

    "But we should not forget that violence against women does exist!"

    - Oh god... Yes it does exist and yes it does exist EVERYWHERE. Is this somehow new for you gals?

    "Thank God that there are Georgian men who do not deny this fact!"

    - Honestly, do you need a confirmation from every Georgian men that home violence does exist in the world??

    "Finally I think Georgian are sensitive people and because we are not Georgian and talking about this problem, they fill that American or foreigners are going to insult whole their culture and country!!!"

    - Oh hell no, I have no problem with criticizing my country. I can criticize the hell out of it. (Where I agree with the criticism - Like we have ABSOLUTELY RETARDED DRIVERS) BUT, honestly tell me you do know at least something about home violence, human trafficking and such. I mean... have you people been living under a rock?! The world is a dangerous place and as for Georgia it is NOT that dangerous by far. The WORST that could happen to you today in Georgia is that you might get robbed... just as my friend got robbed in London last week. Bad - absolutely, but why make surprised faces and look like this has not happened anywhere ever? STUFF HAPPENS.

    "SO just I want to say that we all should help each other understand each other culture and try to make our world better place for children,women and men!"

    - I don't want to sound insulting, but this words make you sound like an 8 year old. (although cute and righteous)

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  25. Dear Alexander

    Why do you think that I insult you? I'm not sure but just feel that you are a little hot-tempered?
    About violence against women did I say that it is a part of any country's culture? Not at all! But yes it does exist!
    About my countries, which one Italy or Iran? Yes in Italy also violence does exist but to be honest it is incomparable with Iran! Have you ever been in Italy or Iran Alexander?
    In some societies people do discuss problems openly and try to solve them...

    About my childish opinon... I'm not ashamed because a small girl can not hurt or insult any one!
    please read this famous quotes:
    "A small group of determined and like-minded people can change the course of history." --Mahatma Gandhi

    Sarah

    ReplyDelete
  26. Dear Sarah,

    "Why do you think that I insult you?"

    - I felt so, because you gave an example that your friend is living with a Georgian husband, who is not beating her up...

    (But probably I was more angered and insulted by cynical and really offensive comment by an "Invisible" person, above my posts and that added things up.)

    "I'm not sure but just feel that you are a little hot-tempered?"

    - I'm a little annoyed that's all. I can take any meaningful criticism and will FULLY recognize and support it, but when a something pretty uncommon for a Georgian society is blown out of proportion like a behemoth... I DO NOT TALK ABOUT YOUR COMMENT. I just feel like people get it wrong and it feels annoying. I mean there are so many real problems with the Georgian society, like with most of the societies and people just waist time on some important, but rare issues.

    "About violence against women did I say that it is a part of any country's culture? Not at all! But yes it does exist! "

    - Look, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything here.

    "About my countries, which one Italy or Iran? Yes in Italy also violence does exist but to be honest it is incomparable with Iran! Have you ever been in Italy or Iran Alexander?"

    - Have been in Europe in many places and Asia too.... but not Iran or Italy. Well I guess it is complicated in Italy... esp. south… and in Iran it should more complicated, BUT THAT’S JUST A GUESS, because I DON’T KNOW.
    "In some societies people do discuss problems openly and try to solve them..."

    - This problem is discussed very often on TV or other media in Georgia. I just don't see reasons for people to freak out and act like everybody is going to rape/beat them in Georgia or something... I find this funny and stupid.

    If anybody wrote something about theft, driving, dirt, manners… i would 100% agree.
    “About my childish opinon... I'm not ashamed because a small girl can not hurt or insult any one! “
    - You are overreacting. I don’t have any bad feelings towards you in any way Sarah.

    Please read this famous quotes: "A small group of determined and like-minded people can change the course of history." --Mahatma Gandhi

    - I don’t understand what was the context, but it’s Powerful. 

    But I know the opposite: “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”
    P.S.
    My mom told me over the Skype today that she met Iranian girl today who could speak impressively good Georgian. I’m glad that we have more Iranians now, I know little about your nation. But I have some Iranian friends in Japan…

    ReplyDelete
  27. Dear Alexander
    Gamarjoba

    As a tourist I had some problems in Georgia,if you were a woman you could understand our problems better! I was constantly warned about cabs, clothes and smoking in public, but for main problem was that I could not walk alone late at night!
    Our world is dangerous place for womena & children unfortunately! Tell me honestly Japan is more secure or Ukraine? Once with my brother I was in Ukraine & it was terrible! Georgia is more secure place than Ukraine! As I was in Switzerland and Swiss was more secure than Georgia, so all countries are different. At least I think so!

    About bad feeling toward me? I do not feel so? Why should we have? Did not get it!Maybe you felt that my tounge is like knife? I'm so sorry!

    By the way you and your mother have some Iranian friends it is very nice. Lucky those girls who speak Georgian, I try to learn Georgian but it is hard language to learn (Alphabet)!!! But I know it is the way to success in Georgia.

    Hope you did not get bored?
    Have a nice day
    Sarah

    ReplyDelete
  28. Dear sarah,

    "As a tourist I had some problems in Georgia,if you were a woman you could understand our problems better!"

    - As a tourist you will have some problems almost anywhere you go.

    "I was constantly warned about cabs, clothes and smoking in public,"

    - Well... if you dress like this-> http://clouddragon.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/fashion-slutty.jpg it might be inappropriate. But in general you can dress as you want in Georgia, granted there are some poor and conservative communities in some far away villages that might get insulted in this case, but I would be very surprised if anybody ever expressed this personally. A guest is a guest...

    "but for main problem was that I could not walk alone late at night!"

    - What year? There are places where I don't feel comfortable at night too... I can't say they are dangerous, but it's about the feeling... Like old market at night.

    "Our world is dangerous place for womena & children unfortunately! Tell me honestly Japan is more secure or Ukraine?"

    - Japan is by far the safest place I've ever been and certainly it is much safer than... Ukraine, Georgia or even Switzerland.

    "Once with my brother I was in Ukraine & it was terrible!"

    - Well... Ukraine is a nice country, but they do have some nationalists... Maybe your skin is a little brown or darker or whatever... lets just say there are nationalists and THIS DOES NOT MEAN that it generally is dangerous... Ukraine is a BIG country and well... there is plenty of everything in there. But I'm not qualified to talk about Ukraine in more detail, I lack the knowledge.

    "Georgia is more secure place than Ukraine!"

    - Georgia is more secure than many countries and is less secure than many countries too. I would still think that HEAVY crime is pretty low in Georgia compared to many other countries.

    "As I was in Switzerland and Swiss was more secure than Georgia, so all countries are different. At least I think so!"

    - Well I worked 4 years at CERN in Geneva in Switzerland and it does depend on where you go. Clearly you have not walked around at Les Pâquis at night... hookers, pimps, dirt, rude people, drug dealers... in the MIDDLE of the city!

    BUT certainly Switzerland is safer than Georgia, it is one of the safest countries in the world. [Still stuff like rape, robbery, murder... DOES occur, like EVERYWHERE ELSE.] Switzerland did not have a war in 200 years and will probably never have one. Georgia is in a constant war and the next big war can't be further than 4-5 years away...(scared ya? Hahah) I mean when you compare the safety, you have to take such things into account, not to mention Switzerland is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Georgia MIGHT get wealthy, but it will take decades of a correct development.

    "About bad feeling toward me? I do not feel so? Why should we have? Did not get it!Maybe you felt that my tounge is like knife? I'm so sorry!"

    - LOL, I did not.

    "By the way you and your mother have some Iranian friends it is very nice. Lucky those girls who speak Georgian, I try to learn Georgian but it is hard language to learn (Alphabet)!!!"

    - HAHA, I'm learning FREAKING Japanese! IT IS PRETTY TOUGH! (3 - ALPHABETS and the third one is not even an alphabet... it Chinese letter... all 2000 of em...)

    "But I know it is the way to success in Georgia."

    - Well, in any country. If you want to achieve something, you need a local language. I'm not staying in Japan after my Ph.D will be over in 2012, but I think it's cool to speak a little.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Irony here is her husband may not be a monster.

    In their culture he wanted to marry her. He did not abuse her and treated her okay.

    He maybe a nice guy, it's just the whole system is screwy. I saw something about a rapist, he didn't think he was doing anything wrong when he was raping his neighbor. He had raped his 8 year old (girl) neighbor because he wanted to practice having sex. When he raped her the last time, it came to him that he what he was doing was "wrong". Now in the culture he was in, "it was rape because the girl was too young to get pregnant and she wouldn't tell anyone so she wouldn't be de-valued". It's a little backwards for me to explain.

    Going back to your friend, her husband wanted to court her, so to get his chance he "kidnapped her". She still could've said no, but he wanted to be good to her so she wouldn't say no and get all the "shame" with saying no to his proposal.

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  30. I had a two women friends just return from Georgia and three 18-20 yr. old men tried to bridenap them. They got my friends into their car, took them to a building on a construction site with tons of men around, all working. The men then told my pals they would have to choose which of the 3 to have sex with, and then marry.

    Luckily, my friends told the men they would have sex with them the next day because they were on their periods. These dumba$$es believed my friends and took them back to the hotel they were staying in. Of course, our friends moved to a different hotel and never saw the guys again.

    My pals talked to many Georgian women that said bridenapping still goes on all the time and that most men carry daggers to help with this, or to fight off other men once they've kidnapped someone, all under the BS guise of tradition. They also said that it's "illegal" but not enforced and most of the police are fine with bridenapping to this day. It's "tradition", right?

    It's like a bunch of 13 year old men posing as adult men, all trying to get a girl however they can. No game, no skills to get a girl. Just force.

    If you are a woman from any other country, don't go to Georgia. Not a place to vacation unless you are looking for a husband, IMO.

    ReplyDelete